From: Peter Renzland Subject: Re: swing dance calendar (differences ECS/WCS/Lindy) To: swinglist@newswing.com (Swing List) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:45:16 -0500 (EST) Tiffany says: > Lindying. To me, it looked like a seductive swing, kind of a swing/tango. Interesting you should make that connection. Lindy Hop is a lot like Argentine Tango -- it has a strong sense of culture and tradition it is very closely tied to its music it emphasises close partner connection it does not deny its sensuality it has lead to many poor imitations (I would appreciate comments and especially corrections on any of the following): as for differences between Lindy Hop and other common swing dances -- Lindy Hop is a Jazz dance, danced to Jazz music Jive is the British ballroom dance establishment's idea of what Lindy Hop would be if you were to remove everything that makes it different from British ballroom dance establishment dances. Jive is not a Jazz dance. Jive is not closely tied to music. Jive has an oppositional partner connection -- much pushing and pulling, and much less harmony than LH. LH is low, solid, earthy, sensuous, and can be danced at tempos below 100 bpm as well as above 200 bpm. Includes aerials. Jive is prancy, upright, flighty, not sensuous, and tied to a narrow range of tempos. LH has a basic step: STEP, plus a few variations -- hold, lift, kick, and of course you can step or not step in an unlimited variety of rhythm patters. LH has a very strong 8-count structure that is linked to the very strong 8-count structure of Swing Jazz music. Jive has an artificially invented and (almost) univerally imposed 6-count rhythm structure. Jive is considered a "latin" dance by the ISTD (Imperial Society of Teachers of Dance), whereas their particular "sanitized" version of the Tango is not. ECS is the *American* ballroom establishment's equivalent of Jive -- an Arthur Murray legacy. WCS (originally called Western Swing by Arthur Murray) is the "official" state dance of California. The WCS establishment, especiallu in California, tends to regard everything (including LH) to be ECS, if it ain't WCS. WCS is not a Jazz dance. It is not low down, earthy, but rather very upright, and strident, like a fashion-show stride. Dancers often wear ballroomy, glittery clothes, lots of perfume, complicated hairdos, strong-smelling deodorant gum, and sharp rings on their fingers. They often like CW music or various other forms of non-swing music, and often dislike Jazz music. 6-count rhythm pattern is considered "basic". There *are* plenty of 8-count rhythm patterns. These dances did not evolve naturally together with the music, as did the LH, but were created by ballroom dance institutions. They have institutions that define the dances. Competitions. Lobbyists. Politics. This is why I don't consider them traditional ("handed down") dances, but ballroom dances. I know that many of the Jive/ECS/WCS dancers don't see themselves as ballroom dancers. But even if those dancers learned versions of those dances "on the street", or at CW dances or in informal swing dance circles, the dances did not grow "in the street". Jive, ECS, WCS have lots of push/pull, lots of arm figures, and lots of step focus. The good LH teachers will tell you that there are no steps, no rules -- only a few principles, and those principles are more universal than Lindy Hop. I'll add IMHO. Clearly I *like* LH a lot, and I don't care much for the others. It takes more tact than I have to compare matters of taste without ever offending those with different tastes. My apologies. The only way to competely avoid offending anyone is never to say anything of substance. I'd rather to it this way :-) -- , , , , Peter Renzland, Toronto Peter@Dancing.Org \__@_ {)/ (}, 9 \@ {)/ Traditional Social Dance WWW.Dancing.Org \ /\_._,<_/ (>_/7 /\_._,<_\ Hog Town Hep Cats Je danse donc je suis \ /_\ /_\ /) /\ /_\ Alpine Scandi Celtic Blues *Lindy-Hop* /) /( / )( \ ' ) ( `